Is incest between siblings ever alright???
by mrggfep on Dec.08, 2009, under Dating and Relationships
(Scroll to bottom for update(s)… to the original post)
Before you think I have lost my mind… let me say that I had never seriously pondered this question until I read the story which you can find below.
This story is supposedly a true account of one un-named young lady’s love affair with her brother which started as they were teens, and continued through their college years. The interesting aspect this story that made me think was the fact that she attempts to disconnect some cases of incest between siblings from abuse by noting the fact that she and her brother have only one year of difference in age and that they both consented to all of their sexual encounters (which began when she was 14 and he was 15.) It seems as if this pair of siblings are/were really in love with each other, and it was not simply a perverted act of an older brother abusing a younger sister, if you believe that such a situation is possible. Their situation even progressed to the point where the brother considered breaking up with his fiance to live with his sister as a romantic couple.
Even after reading this article I cannot accept completely, the idea of incest being acceptable…but maybe there are exceptions to the rule. I understand that centuries ago incest was sort of the thing to do, and in fact it is believed that siblings married in Ancient Egyptian and old world European royal families to keep the royal bloodlines in tact. So I must assume that it is a modern ideology that has resulted in a society which frowns upon incestuous relationships between siblings. It seems that we are taught, or we learn by observation that sex (and marriage) between siblings is wrong in modern society, if two adolescent or adult siblings fall in love with each other, what makes that intrinsically wrong outside the boundaries of what society finds acceptable?
If you believe in the power of love (romantically) how do you fight it when you think you are in love with your sibling???(assuming that you have feelings that incest is wrong)
Let me end by stating that I would never promote or participate in incest, and I do not think there is any room for child abuse ever… This is all just philosophical discourse on my behalf.
Just in case you could not access the link to the story above the full address to the story is below:
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4332635.ece
UPDATE****July 28,2010
Today I came across this article at HuffPo, which states that it is natural to be attracted to close family members…
18 Comments for this entry
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December 9th, 2009 on 7:36 am
Hmmm – my only reaction as I read this (and I struggled to finish the entire article) is that this is extremely disturbing and sad.
December 9th, 2009 on 7:51 am
That is the response that I expect from most people. I was thinking, and I can not recall ever dicussing this issue as a child, nor was I explicitly taught that it was wrong. So my question is how do we learn that incest is not normal? Back in the day it was cool apparently, and somehow it has fallen out of grace with most modern societies. So it must be a learned response as if it were a part of human nature it would have never been acceptable. Also, this article made me think that perhaps incestuous activities occur more frequently than I had ever imagined. The article leads me to believe that quite a few young people experiment with their brothers and sisters.
December 9th, 2009 on 9:32 am
I wasn't terribly disgusted by the story. I don't think it is unnatural to develop a strong attraction to family members. I watched a Discovery Health special on the topic a few months ago that made me think differently (I'm still not in favor of it, but I can be more open-minded about it). Scientifically, it has been proven that most of us form a mild attraction to someone in our families at some point in time (sometimes it's between a father and daughter, a mother and son, or siblings). That does not mean that you have to take it up a notch like these two did. I never had a close sibling relationship (we were all girls and all very different). There's a lot to be said about a person that sees you for who you truly are. I know for me, I often felt ignored and this male cousin of mine would be the only one to take the time to play with me and hear my thoughts about things (so naturally I developed a mild crush). I am in no way condoning the behavior and I don't think that I would have wanted a sexual relationship with a family member, but I guess I can understand the connection they had but I don't understand how those feelings could become sexual. If you want to get Biblical, Adam and Eve's kids did marry and have children (but back then it was out of necessity). Like you said, some cultures did it to keep the blood lines pure. It happens…if that's what other people want to do, so be it. I just hope that I never have to deal with it on a personal level (like with my own kids or a set of family members…then my open-mindedness about the situation will more than likely change).
December 9th, 2009 on 10:58 am
Let's say you had a 14 and 15 year old daughter & son, and you found out somehow that they had been intimate once, or even frequently. Let's even consider the mild intimacy in the form of kissing, and more extreme in the form of sex or oral sex… what would you do? I ask because this couple seems to have taken 3 years to go from their first touch to full blown sexual encounters. I want to know how you think you would respond if you found out before they went all the way?
How would you respond if you found out after the deed was done?
Would you come down hard on them? would you calmly explain how things should be in this society? What exactly would be your grounds for saying that its wrong? Assuming that we can agree that telling children that “because I said so” is not a very useful explaination. Would you go to the extreme of splitting them up and sending one to live with family or to boarding school? What would you do in the multiple cases presented above??? ( not just for mawilliams24, but I pose these questions for all readers)
December 9th, 2009 on 11:14 am
Like I said, I hope I never have to deal with it on a personal level because I am sure my “live and let live” mentality would be out the window. I honestly don't know what I would do. All I was saying is that I can understand how there might be an attraction, but I don't understand how that gets sexual. I would probably explain to them that it is inappropriate to be intimate but the feelings they are feeling could happen. I think they would try their best to make sure that no one in the family knows, but if I found out, I might just have to split them up…I don't know really. Just like I said, I hope I never have to deal with that on a personal level.
December 9th, 2009 on 1:10 pm
No, I don’t think it is ever ok to have a sexual relationship with your sibling. I couldn’t imagine having sex with my brother or sister, the thought disgusts me the same way having sex with either of my parents disgusts me. I think we learn that incest is not “normal” because typically it starts out as one person taking advantage of another, just because children are close in age or the same age for that matter, does not mean that someone could not be taken advantage of in that situation. Usually, there is some sort of power that the initiator of sex holds. Once the lines of appropriate boundaries have been blurred it is easy to continue inappropriate behavior, something that ends up consentual may not have necessarily started that way. I also think that incestual relationships between children are often an extension of sexual abuse between the initiating child and an adult, where that child then becomes a perpetrator onto other children. Maybe this situation was truly different but the thought of it still makes me cringe.
December 9th, 2009 on 1:29 pm
Learning that incest is wrong based on experiencing abuse requires exposure to incest or abuse… If one is never exposed to incest or abuse then how is it learned that this behavior is wrong?
December 9th, 2009 on 2:35 pm
Short answer is that societal norms say that incest is wrong so most say it is…. For me, someone who was not exposed to sexual abuse or incest; I didn’t learn it was wrong, it just feels wrong.
December 9th, 2009 on 2:56 pm
Has a 14 year old really developed an understanding of societal norms yet? Especially considering the fact that most families wait much to late to address sexual interactions, if at all. Teens are still trying to understand what's normal for thier body, let alone what's normal for society… I'm just saying… maybe its not something that comes naturally to everybody.
I am trying to get someone to explain what grounds one has to say that it is inherently wrong. I have not heard a reasonable foundation for the arguement that its wrong, saying that it just feels wrong is not a tool that can be used to teach a child that their actions are wrong. If you were trying to tell a child why incest with a sibling is wrong, even when both parties say that they enjoy it, how would you do that? You have to have more ammunition thatn “it just feels wrong” or “because I said so.”
December 9th, 2009 on 3:53 pm
Of course I think a 14 year old is old enough to know what societal norms are, most of adolescent development is the conflict between “trying to fit in” worrying about “being normal” (body being one aspect) and forming their own identity within the world. Think back to your teenage years There are many things that parents teach their children “this is wrong” without any real explanation like masturbating in public, going to school with no clothes on, talking to your self in public just to name a few. Those things wouldn’t really hurt anyone one but children know not to do it because that is what they were taught. As a parent, I would teach my children about boundaries, safe touch and what is acceptable. Kissing your sibling with an open mouth, fondling each other or sex would not be something that is accepted in my household. I don’ t think that you will get a concrete answer from anyone as to why its wrong because like with most human behaviors there isn’t much empirical data that you can use other than observations and emotions to show reason and for many folks that’s not enough.
I’m walking around work looking at all these children- brothers and sisters hugging and playing with each other and the thought of something more is making my stomach hurt!
December 9th, 2009 on 4:32 pm
I wasn't terribly disgusted by the story. I don't think it is unnatural to develop a strong attraction to family members. I watched a Discovery Health special on the topic a few months ago that made me think differently (I'm still not in favor of it, but I can be more open-minded about it). Scientifically, it has been proven that most of us form a mild attraction to someone in our families at some point in time (sometimes it's between a father and daughter, a mother and son, or siblings). That does not mean that you have to take it up a notch like these two did. I never had a close sibling relationship (we were all girls and all very different). There's a lot to be said about a person that sees you for who you truly are. I know for me, I often felt ignored and this male cousin of mine would be the only one to take the time to play with me and hear my thoughts about things (so naturally I developed a mild crush). I am in no way condoning the behavior and I don't think that I would have wanted a sexual relationship with a family member, but I guess I can understand the connection they had but I don't understand how those feelings could become sexual. If you want to get Biblical, Adam and Eve's kids did marry and have children (but back then it was out of necessity). Like you said, some cultures did it to keep the blood lines pure. It happens…if that's what other people want to do, so be it. I just hope that I never have to deal with it on a personal level (like with my own kids or a set of family members…then my open-mindedness about the situation will more than likely change).
December 9th, 2009 on 5:58 pm
Let's say you had a 14 and 15 year old daughter & son, and you found out somehow that they had been intimate once, or even frequently. Let's even consider the mild intimacy in the form of kissing, and more extreme in the form of sex or oral sex… what would you do? I ask because this couple seems to have taken 3 years to go from their first touch to full blown sexual encounters. I want to know how you think you would respond if you found out before they went all the way?
How would you respond if you found out after the deed was done?
Would you come down hard on them? would you calmly explain how things should be in this society? What exactly would be your grounds for saying that its wrong? Assuming that we can agree that telling children that “because I said so” is not a very useful explaination. Would you go to the extreme of splitting them up and sending one to live with family or to boarding school? What would you do in the multiple cases presented above??? ( not just for mawilliams24, but I pose these questions for all readers)
December 9th, 2009 on 6:14 pm
Like I said, I hope I never have to deal with it on a personal level because I am sure my “live and let live” mentality would be out the window. I honestly don't know what I would do. All I was saying is that I can understand how there might be an attraction, but I don't understand how that gets sexual. I would probably explain to them that it is inappropriate to be intimate but the feelings they are feeling could happen. I think they would try their best to make sure that no one in the family knows, but if I found out, I might just have to split them up…I don't know really. Just like I said, I hope I never have to deal with that on a personal level.
December 9th, 2009 on 8:10 pm
No, I don’t think it is ever ok to have a sexual relationship with your sibling. I couldn’t imagine having sex with my brother or sister, the thought disgusts me the same way having sex with either of my parents disgusts me. I think we learn that incest is not “normal” because typically it starts out as one person taking advantage of another, just because children are close in age or the same age for that matter, does not mean that someone could not be taken advantage of in that situation. Usually, there is some sort of power that the initiator of sex holds. Once the lines of appropriate boundaries have been blurred it is easy to continue inappropriate behavior, something that ends up consentual may not have necessarily started that way. I also think that incestual relationships between children are often an extension of sexual abuse between the initiating child and an adult, where that child then becomes a perpetrator onto other children. Maybe this situation was truly different but the thought of it still makes me cringe.
December 9th, 2009 on 8:29 pm
Learning that incest is wrong based on experiencing abuse requires exposure to incest or abuse… If one is never exposed to incest or abuse then how is it learned that this behavior is wrong?
December 9th, 2009 on 9:35 pm
Short answer is that societal norms say that incest is wrong so most say it is…. For me, someone who was not exposed to sexual abuse or incest; I didn’t learn it was wrong, it just feels wrong.
December 9th, 2009 on 9:56 pm
Has a 14 year old really developed an understanding of societal norms yet? Especially considering the fact that most families wait much to late to address sexual interactions, if at all. Teens are still trying to understand what's normal for thier body, let alone what's normal for society… I'm just saying… maybe its not something that comes naturally to everybody.
I am trying to get someone to explain what grounds one has to say that it is inherently wrong. I have not heard a reasonable foundation for the arguement that its wrong, saying that it just feels wrong is not a tool that can be used to teach a child that their actions are wrong. If you were trying to tell a child why incest with a sibling is wrong, even when both parties say that they enjoy it, how would you do that? You have to have more ammunition thatn “it just feels wrong” or “because I said so.”
December 9th, 2009 on 10:53 pm
Of course I think a 14 year old is old enough to know what societal norms are, most of adolescent development is the conflict between “trying to fit in” worrying about “being normal” (body being one aspect) and forming their own identity within the world. Think back to your teenage years There are many things that parents teach their children “this is wrong” without any real explanation like masturbating in public, going to school with no clothes on, talking to your self in public just to name a few. Those things wouldn’t really hurt anyone one but children know not to do it because that is what they were taught. As a parent, I would teach my children about boundaries, safe touch and what is acceptable. Kissing your sibling with an open mouth, fondling each other or sex would not be something that is accepted in my household. I don’ t think that you will get a concrete answer from anyone as to why its wrong because like with most human behaviors there isn’t much empirical data that you can use other than observations and emotions to show reason and for many folks that’s not enough.
I’m walking around work looking at all these children- brothers and sisters hugging and playing with each other and the thought of something more is making my stomach hurt!